{ "presentation": "complete-card", "format_version": 3, "overview": "Knees-over-toes training explores strength with the knee traveling forward over the foot. It is closely associated with Ben Patrick's Athletic Truth Group (ATG), especially its deep split squat. People look it up to build movement confidence and mobility; the brand's pain-free performance claims are not guarantees.", "overview_sources": "Athletic Truth Group · undated", "overview_source_ids": [ "fit-rebuild-knees-over-toes-atg-history" ], "sections": [ { "role": "explanation", "title": "What the movements involve", "items": [ { "label": "Knees passing the toes changes where the work goes.", "text": "It is not automatically a form error. In a small barbell-squat experiment, preventing forward knee travel reduced knee loading but greatly increased hip loading. That finding does not establish a safe depth for an injured knee or test the ATG program.", "source": "Fry and colleagues · 2003", "source_ids": [ "fit46-knees-over-toes-squat-torques" ] }, { "label": "The split squat uses a deep staggered stance.", "text": "One foot is forward and the other back as the front knee travels forward and the body lowers. ATG's young-athlete demonstration permits the front heel to lift; it is not a universal heel-down squat cue.", "source": "Athletic Truth Group · undated", "source_ids": [ "fit46-knees-over-toes-young-athletes" ] }, { "label": "A higher front-foot platform makes the range easier.", "text": "Raising the whole front foot eases flexibility demands; hand support eases strength demands. ATG progresses toward lower platforms, less assistance and added weight. Range and load are separate adjustments.", "source": "Athletic Truth Group · undated", "source_ids": [ "fit46-knees-over-toes-knee-ability-series" ] }, { "label": "Tibialis raises work the front of the shin.", "text": "The wall version keeps the heels planted while the forefoot lifts toward the shin. Moving closer to the wall makes it easier; standing farther away makes it harder.", "source": "Athletic Truth Group · undated", "source_ids": [ "fit46-knees-over-toes-zero-chapter" ] }, { "label": "Backward work has equipment-free and sled versions.", "text": "The beginner lifting article lists 200 yards unresisted, 100 yards with a sled, or two minutes on a resisted treadmill. It also allows this step to be omitted.", "source": "Athletic Truth Group · undated", "source_ids": [ "fit-rebuild-knees-over-toes-atg-beginner" ] }, { "label": "Knee Ability Zero starts without weights.", "text": "That book's starting format differs from ATG's loaded lifting programs. A free drill demonstration, the book and paid app programming are not interchangeable routines.", "source": "Athletic Truth Group · undated", "source_ids": [ "fit46-knees-over-toes-zero-chapter" ] }, { "label": "One beginner lifting routine uses two weekly sessions.", "text": "Each session appears at least once weekly. Its second session includes two tibialis sets up to 20 reps with a bar and four split-squat sets up to 12 per side, starting unloaded.", "source": "Athletic Truth Group · undated", "source_ids": [ "fit-rebuild-knees-over-toes-atg-beginner" ] } ] }, { "role": "benefits", "title": "Why people use it", "items": [ { "label": "The goal is strength through more available movement.", "text": "Patrick presents the split squat as a way to practice squat mobility and strength one side at a time. This is his coaching rationale; a couch stretch alone trains a different task from moving against resistance.", "source": "Athletic Truth Group · undated", "source_ids": [ "fit46-knees-over-toes-structural-balance" ] }, { "label": "Strength training can also improve flexibility.", "text": "A small trial found full-range hip/back lifting improved forward-reaching flexibility similarly to stretching, with greater strength gains. It studied 18 healthy young adults, not ATG split squats or knee rehabilitation. It supports the general idea, not promises of repaired knees or higher jumps.", "source": "BMC Sports Science, Medicine and Rehabilitation · 2024", "source_ids": [ "fit46-knees-over-toes-mobility-trial" ] } ] }, { "role": "cautions", "title": "Good to know", "items": [ { "label": "Deepest is not the same as best.", "text": "ATG includes assisted and elevated versions. Advanced social-media depth is not a starting requirement, and creator anecdotes do not justify forcing painful positions.", "source": "Athletic Truth Group · undated", "source_ids": [ "fit46-knees-over-toes-knee-ability-series" ] }, { "label": "Locking, giving way or major swelling needs assessment.", "text": "Severe pain, inability to bear weight, a badly swollen knee, or a hot/red knee with fever warrants urgent medical advice. Swelling after a session does not identify its cause. These drills cannot diagnose an injury or determine whether surgery is needed.", "source": "NHS · 2023", "source_ids": [ "fit46-knees-over-toes-nhs-knee-pain" ] } ] }, { "role": "community", "title": "From community discussion", "items": [ { "label": "Short add-ons use two or three drills.", "text": "Reports describe shin raises, split squats and sometimes step-downs in 10–20 minutes, two or three days weekly, before lifting or after easy cardio. These are people's adaptations, not the full ATG schedule.", "source": "Community", "provenance": "preserved-community-record" }, { "label": "Reported rep ranges vary from the published routine.", "text": "Examples include 15–25 slow shin raises and 8–15 split squats per side, bodyweight first. People describe changing range before weight, avoiding bouncing, and unfamiliar next-day shin soreness. Soreness alone does not show benefit.", "source": "Community", "provenance": "preserved-community-record" }, { "label": "Easier stairs are one reason people keep a small routine.", "text": "Some accounts describe less apprehension on stairs after about a month. Four-to-eight-week introductions sometimes become a ten-minute habit or stop altogether. Walking, a short written drill list, shoes that feel stable, and returning at shorter range after a layoff feature in these accounts.", "source": "Community", "provenance": "preserved-community-record" }, { "label": "A full routine can take much longer than an add-on.", "text": "An app subscriber struggled to fit ATG around 5/3/1 lifting and existing gym costs. Replies reported 20–25 minutes versus 45–60 minutes for book-based sessions. Those differences reflect users' versions and pace; adding another whole program also adds work and recovery demands.", "source": "Community · Reddit r/Kneesovertoes · 2024", "source_ids": [ "fit46-knees-over-toes-reddit-overwhelmed" ] }, { "label": "One improvement story needed no sled.", "text": "A lifter reported rebuilding squat/deadlift tolerance over three months, using partial Zero sessions three days weekly and ten-minute backward walks five days weekly. They noticed improvement after adding the walks but acknowledged coincidence was possible. Ordinary house/street walking avoided equipment hassle.", "source": "Community · Reddit r/Kneesovertoes · 2023", "source_ids": [ "fit46-knees-over-toes-reddit-success" ] }, { "label": "A first elevated hold still felt unstable.", "text": "A beginner described shaking during a 30-second split-squat hold and next-day irritation. Replies emphasized more front-foot elevation and chair/rack support. Their guesses about spasms and sciatica were not diagnoses; an elevated setup alone had not made the attempt manageable.", "source": "Community · Reddit r/Kneesovertoes · 2025", "source_ids": [ "fit-rebuild-knees-over-toes-reddit-first" ] }, { "label": "Some keep other drills and drop the split squat.", "text": "One poster continued twice-weekly KOT work but abandoned painful split squats. A commenter with prior meniscus/ACL surgery also described pressure and pain at depth. The discussion included other strengthening options: enjoying parts of ATG does not mean every movement helps every knee.", "source": "Community · Reddit r/Kneesovertoes · 2025", "source_ids": [ "fit-rebuild-knees-over-toes-reddit-pain" ] } ] } ], "related": [ "couch-stretch", "ten-minute-mobility", "first-gym-week", "starting-strength" ] }